How the Christians have been done by Iblis (Satan)

**AhmedBahgat** · Last edited by AhmedBahgat on Thu 03 Sep, 2009 4:46 pm; edited 5 times in total

Hello All

Chriitians always accuse me of mocking Jesus peace be upon him, however I don't mock Jesus, because Jesus for me is exactly like Mohammad peace be upon both, it is the Christians who mock him for about 2000 years, they made him a joke, many humans at his time pissed on him before they killed him while he cried like a coward, and it suppose to be him, knowing that he has to die for us, this is just a load of non sense, I don't believe that Jesus died on the cross any way, so it is the Christians who mock him, not me, I'm defending him against that mocking by the Christians indeed.

Firstly to suggest that by calling Jesus son of god metaphorically will make him the son of god for real then all these humans must also be sons of god for real.
Jesus was calling his disciples as his children:

Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.
John ; 13:33]

Would that mean that the disciples are also gods? Because they were described as the children of Jesus The son of god

In another location in John's Gospel we see Jesus telling the Jews, that Satan is their father:

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
[John ; 8:44]

Would that mean that all the Jews are the sons of the devil Satan?

In Luke, we read that Adam was the son of god:

Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
[Luke ; 3:38]

Would that mean Adam is exactly like Jesus and both are sons of god and consequently gods?

In Mark describing the leader who cried then died as being the son of god:

And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
[Mark ; 15:39]

Would that mean that this human also is like Jesus, i.e. another son of god?

However we see Luke talking about the same man but instead of describing him as son of god, Luke described him as Certainly this was a righteous man.

Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly this was a righteous man.
[Luke ; 23:47]

Would that mean during this age, the son of god really means a righteous man?

The issue is not really being a son of god, because for him to be able to morph between a human and a god as many Christian claim, it has to mean that he had god quality to be able to achieve that miracle of changing status between a human and a god, for them to say that he is not a god but a son of a god is an escape try to the dilemma they created for themselves when they first called Jesus the god himself, they needed to find a way out after they realized that He can't be god himself, otherwise god himself is dead, so they say: no Jesus is not god but his son, well let me tell all of you then, being a son of a god would that mean that we have another god beside the main god?

They won't be able to escape that argument, so the whole issue really is proving that he is another god not a mere son of a god, but none of the Bible human writers believed that Jesus was a God or carry any God quality:

None of the Bible's Writers Believed that Jesus is God

Christians and Muslims both believe in Jesus, love him, and honour him. They are, however, divided over the question of his divinity. Fortunately, this difference can be resolved if we refer the question to both the Bible and the Quran, because, both the Bible and the Quran teach that Jesus is not God.

It is clear enough to everyone that the Quran denies the divinity of Jesus, so we do not need to spend much time explaining that. On the other hand, many people misunderstand the Bible; they feel that the belief in Jesus as God is so widespread that it must have come from the Bible. The following evidences will show quite conclusively that the Bible does not teach that. The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is not God. In the Bible God is always someone other than Jesus.

Some will say that something Jesus said or something he did while on the earth proves that he is God. The evidences will show that the disciples never came to the conclusion that Jesus is God. And these are people who lived and walked with Jesus and thus knew first hand what he said and did. Furthermore, we are told in the Acts of the Apostles in the Bible that the disciples were being guided by the Holy Spirit. If Jesus is God, surely they should know it. But they did not. They kept worshipping the one true God who was worshipped by Abraham, Moses and Jesus:

The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
(The Acts ; 3:13)

All of the writers of the Bible believed that God was not Jesus. The idea that Jesus is God did not become part of Christian belief until after the Bible was written, and took many centuries to become part of the faith of Christians.

Matthew, Mark, and Luke, authors of the first three Gospels, believed that Jesus was not God:

And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
(Mark ; 10:18)

And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
(Matthew ; 19:17)

They believed that he was the son of God in the sense of a righteous person as I explained earlier. Many others too, are similarly called sons of God:

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
(Matthew ; 23:9}

Paul, believed to be the author of some thirteen or fourteen letters in the Bible, also believed that Jesus is not God. For Paul, God first created Jesus, then used Jesus as the agent by which to create the rest of creation:

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature
(Colossians ; 1:15)

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
(1Corinthians ; 8:6}

Similar ideas are found in the letter to the Hebrews, and also in the Gospel and Letters of John composed some seventy years after Jesus. In all of these writings, however, Jesus is still a creature of God and is therefore forever subservient to God:

And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
(1 Corinthians ; 15:28}

Now, because Paul, John, and the author of Hebrews believed that Jesus was God's first creature, some of what they wrote clearly show that Jesus was a pre-existent powerful being. This is often misunderstood to mean that he must have been God. But to say that Jesus was God is to go against what these very authors wrote. Although these authors had this later belief that Jesus is greater than all creatures, they also believed that he was still lesser than God. In fact, John quotes Jesus as saying:

The Father is greater than I
(John ; 14:28}

And Paul declares that the head of every woman is her husband, the head of every man is Christ, and the head of Christ is God:

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
(1 Corinthians ; 11:3}

Therefore, to find something in these writings and claim that these teach that Jesus is God is to misuse and misquote what those authors are saying. What they wrote must be understood in the context of their belief that Jesus is a creature of God as they have already clearly said.

So we see then, that some of the later writers had a higher view of Jesus, but none of the writers of the Bible believed that Jesus is God. The Bible clearly teaches that there is only one true God, the one whom Jesus worshipped:

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
(John ; 17:3)

To be continued.....

**AhmedBahgat** · Last edited by AhmedBahgat on Tue 21 Aug, 2007 5:15 pm; edited 1 time in total

Hello All

I don't believe that Jesus was a god or a son of a god and as you can see I'm not using the Quran to prove it to myself, because simply the Christians don't believe in it, what I'm using is what they believe in, therefore they have to read carefully and try to prove my understanding wrong, let's look at the evidences from the Acts:

Evidence From Acts of the Apostles

Jesus performed many miraculous wonders, and he without doubt said a lot of wonderful things about himself. Some people use what he said and did as proof that he was God. But his original disciples who lived and walked with him, and were eyewitnesses to what he said and did, never reached this conclusion. The Acts of the Apostles in the Bible details the activity of the disciples over a period of thirty years after Jesus was lifted up to heaven. Throughout this period they never refer to Jesus as God. They continually and consistently use the title God to refer to someone other than Jesus.

Peter stood up with the eleven disciples and addressed the crowd saying:

Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited to you by God with miracles, wonders and signs which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know
(Acts 2:22)

It was God, therefore, who did the miracles through Jesus to convince people that Jesus was backed by God. Peter did not see the miracles as proof that Jesus is God.

In fact, the way Peter refers to God and to Jesus makes it clear that Jesus is not God. For he always turns the title God away from Jesus. Take the following references for example:

God has raised this Jesus . . .
(Acts 2:32)

God has made this Jesus both Lord and Christ
(Acts 2:36)

In both passages, the title God is turned away from Jesus. Why? if Jesus is God.

To Peter, Jesus was a servant of God. Peter said:

God raised up his servant", where the title servant refers to Jesus
(Acts 3:26)

This is clear from a previous passage where Peter declared:

The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus
(Acts 3:13)

Peter must have known that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob never spoke of a Triune God. They always spoke of Jehovah (i.e. Yahweh) as the only God. Here, as in Matthew Jesus is the servant of Yahweh:

Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall show judgment to the Gentiles.
(Matthew 12:18)

If Matthew and Peter are right, then Jesus is not Yahweh, but Yahweh's servant. This proves that Jesus is not God. The Old Testament repeatedly says that Yahweh is the only God :

I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me
(Isaiah 45: 5)

If Yahweh is the name of a triune God, then Jesus is excluded from the Godhead since in that case he would be the servant of the triune God. If, on the other hand, Yahweh is the name of the Father only, then the Father alone is God (since Yahweh alone is God) and Jesus is therefore not God. Either way, Jesus is not God. Peter and Matthew were both right about this.

All of the disciples of Jesus held this view. In Acts we are told that the believers prayed to God saying:

And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is
(Acts 4:24)

And it is clear that the one they were praying to was not Jesus, because, three verses later, they referred to Jesus as

For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed
(Acts 4:27)

If Jesus was God, his disciples should have said this clearly. Instead, they kept preaching that Jesus was God's Messiah. We are told in Acts:

Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Messiah
(Acts 5:41)

The Hebrew title Messiah (Christ in Greek) is a human title. It means Anointed, we see in Isaiah, Cyrus the Persian is called God's Messiah:

Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;
(Isaiah 45:1)

If Jesus was God, why would the disciples continually refer to him with human titles like servant and messiah of God, and consistently use the title God for the one who raised Jesus?

Did they fear men? No! They boldly preached the truth fearing neither imprisonment nor death. When they faced opposition from the authorities, Peter declared:

We must obey God rather than men. The God of our fathers raised Jesus . . .
(Acts 5:29-30)

Were they lacking the Holy Spirit? No! They were supported by the Holy Spirit:

And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them
(Acts 2:3)

Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,
(Acts 4:8)

And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
(Acts 5:32)

They were simply teaching what they had learnt from Jesus that Jesus was not God but, rather, God's servant and Messiah.

The Quran on the other hand confirms that Jesus was the Messiah, and that he was God's servant

(And remember ) when the angels said : O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a word from Him , whose name is the Messiah , Jesus , son of Mary , illustrious in the world and the Hereafter , and one of those brought near ( unto Allah ) .
[The Quran ; 3:45]

He spake : Lo! I am the slave of Allah . He hath given me the Scripture and hath appointed me a Prophet ,
[The Quran ; 19:30]

To be continued....

**AhmedBahgat** · Last edited by AhmedBahgat on Tue 21 Aug, 2007 5:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

Hello All

If Jesus is the son of a god then he must be all-knowing and all powerful:

Jesus is Not All-Powerful, and Not All-Knowing

Christians and Muslims agree that God is all-powerful and all-knowing. The Gospels show that Jesus was not all-powerful, for he had some limitations. Mark tells us in his gospel that Jesus was unable to do any powerful work in his hometown:

5: And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.
6: And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.
[Mark ; 6:5-6]

Mark also tells us that when Jesus tried to heal a certain blind man, the man was not healed after the first attempt, and Jesus had to try a second time

22: And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him.
23: And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
24: And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
25: After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.
26: And he sent him away to his house, saying, Neither go into the town, nor tell it to any in the town.
[Mark ; 8:22-26]

Therefore, although we have the utmost love and respect for Jesus, we need to understand that he is not the all-powerful God.

Mark also reveals that Jesus had limitations in his knowledge, Jesus declared as marked told us that he himself does not know when the last day will occur, but the Father alone knows that

32: But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
[Mark ; 13:32]

Mathew told us the same as Mark:

36: But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
[Mathew ; 24:36]

Therefore he could not have been the all-knowing God.

Some will say that Jesus knew when the last day will occur, but he chose not to tell. But that complicates matters further. Jesus could have said that he knows but he does not wish to tell. Instead, he said that he does not know. We must believe him. Jesus was a man of truth and he was not a liar.

The Gospel of Luke also reveals that Jesus had limited knowledge. Luke says that Jesus increased in wisdom but God's knowledge and wisdom are always perfect:

52: And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.
[Luke ; 2:52]

In Hebrews too we read that Jesus learned obedience:

8: Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered
[Hebrews ; 5:8]

But God does not learn new things. He knows everything always. If Jesus learned something new, that proves that he did not know everything before that, and he was not God. Can he become God later? No! Because there is only one God, and He is God from everlasting to everlasting:

2: Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
[Pslams ; 90:2]

Someone may say that Jesus was God but he took the form of a servant and therefore became limited. Well, that would mean that God changed. But God does not change. He said so Himself:

6: For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
[Malachi ; 3:6]

Jesus never was God, and never will be. In the Bible, Yahweh alone is God and Yahweh declares:

Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me. I, even I, am Yahweh . . .
(Isaiah ch. 43: vv. 10-11}

Some will say that Jesus had two natures, that he was both man and God at the same time. They will say that the limitations we pointed out are limitations in the human nature of Jesus, but his God nature is still unlimited. Notice that the Bible never confirms that Jesus had these two natures. This is a desperate solution offered by those who do not wish to believe what the Bible plainly says. The plain teaching of the Bible, as we have shown, is that Jesus was not God.

This dual-nature solution complicates matters further still. Take for illustration the fig-tree episode in the Gospels:

12: And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry:
13: And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.
14: And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it.
15: And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves;
16: And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple.
17: And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.
18: And the scribes and chief priests heard it, and sought how they might destroy him: for they feared him, because all the people was astonished at his doctrine.
19: And when even was come, he went out of the city.
20: And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.
21: And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away.
22: And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.
23: For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
24: Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
25: And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
[Mark ; 11:12-25]

Jesus was hungry then saw in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs

Jesus then put a curse on the tree, so that no one could eat fruit from it again. The tree withered from the roots by next morning.

Now, it is clear from this passage that Jesus had a lot of power to curse the tree and make it wither from its roots. It is also clear that Jesus' knowledge was limited on two counts. First, he did not know that the tree had no fruit until he came to it. Second, he did not know that it was not the right season to expect figs on trees.

Proponents of the dual-nature theory will have to admit that the power to curse was in Jesus' God nature. They will have to also admit that his lack of knowledge was due to his human nature. They will have to then conclude that the God nature acted at the behest of the limited knowledge stemming from the human nature. But God does not act on ignorance. Surely He would know, as Mark knew, that it was not the season for figs, and that when fig season arrives that tree will provide fruit for God's creatures. Why would God curse a good tree which he created? Some would like to believe that the tree was barren and therefore deserved to be destroyed. But, if Mark was right, the reason the tree had no fruit according to Mark, because it was not the season for figs

These Bible references clearly show that Jesus was not the all-powerful, all-knowing God.

To be continued......

**AhmedBahgat** · Last edited by AhmedBahgat on Fri 19 Feb, 2016 9:53 pm; edited 2 times in total

Hello All

Some will say that this whole discussion over the divinity of Jesus is unnecessary. The important thing, they say, is to accept Jesus as your personal saviour. On the contrary, the Bible's writers stressed that, in order to be saved, it is necessary to understand who exactly is God.
Failure to understand this would be to violate the first and greatest of all the commandments in the Bible. This commandment was emphasized by Jesus, on whom be peace, when a teacher of the Law of Moses asked him as follows:

The Greatest Commandment in the Bible and the Quran

Of all the commandments, which is the most important?
[Mark 12:28]

Jesus replied:

The most important one is this: Hear O Israel, Yahweh our God, Yahweh is one. Love Yahweh your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength ?
[Mark 12:29]

Notice that Jesus was quoting the first commandment from the book of Deuteronomy, 6: 4-5. Jesus confirmed not only that this commandment is still valid, but also that it is the most important of all the commandments.

If Jesus thought that he himself is God, why did he not say so? Instead, he stressed that Yahweh alone is God. The man who questioned Jesus understood this, and what the man says next makes it is clear that God is not Jesus, for he said to Jesus:

Well said, teacher, you are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him . . .
[Mark 12:32]

Now if Jesus was God, he could have told the man so. Instead, he let the man refer to God as someone other than Jesus, and then he even confirmed that the man had spoken wisely

When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God." And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions.
[Mark 12:34]

If Jesus knew that God is a trinity, why did he not say so? Why did he not say that God is one in three, or three in one? Instead, he declared that God is one.? Full stop. True imitators of Jesus will imitate him also in this declaration of God's oneness. They will not add the word three where Jesus never said it.

Does salvation depend on this commandment? Yes, says the Bible! Jesus made this clear when another man approached Jesus to learn from him

17As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. "Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

18"Why do you call me good?, Jesus answered; No one is good ?except God alone.
19You know the commandments: Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honor your father and mother."

20"Teacher, he declared, all these I have kept since I was a boy.

21Jesus looked at him and loved him. One thing you lack, he said. Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

22At this the man's face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.

23Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!"

24The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God!. It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

26The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, Who then can be saved?"

27Jesus looked at them and said, With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God."

28Peter said to him, We have left everything to follow you!"

29"I tell you the truth, Jesus replied, no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age (homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields and with them, persecutions) and in the age to come, eternal life. But many who are first will be last, and the last first."
[Mark 10:17-29]

The man fell on his knees and said to Jesus: Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?

Jesus replied:

Why do you call me good? No one is good? except God alone.
[Mark 12:19]

By so saying, Jesus made a clear distinction between himself and God. Then he proceeded with the answer to the man's question about how to get salvation. He said: If you want to enter life, obey the commandments [Matthew 19:17, Mark 10:19].

Remember that the most important of all the commandments, according to Jesus, is to know Yahweh as the only God.

Jesus further emphasized this in the Gospel According to John 17:1, Jesus lifted his eyes to heaven and prayed, addressing God as Father. Then in verse three, he said to the Father as follows:

And eternal life means knowing you, the only true God, and knowing Jesus Christ, whom you sent
[John 17:3]

This proves beyond doubt that if people are to get eternal life they must know that the one Jesus was praying to is the only true God, and they must know that Jesus was sent by the true God.

Some say that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. But Jesus said that the Father alone is the only true God. True followers of Jesus will follow him in this too. Jesus had said that his true followers are those who hold to his teachings. He said:

If you obey my teaching, you are really my disciples
[John 8:31]

His teaching is that people must continue to keep the commandments, especially the first commandment which emphasises that Yahweh alone is God, and that Yahweh should be loved with all our hearts and all our strengths. We love Jesus, but we must not love him as God. Today many love Jesus more than they love God. This is because they see God as a vengeful person who wanted to exact a penalty from them, and they see Jesus as the Saviour who rescued them from the wrath of God. Yet Yahweh is our only Saviour. He said so Himself:

I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
[Isaiah 43:11]

21Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
[Asaiah 45:21-22]

The Quran confirms the first commandment and addresses it to all humankind:

And your God is one God! there is no god but He; He is the Beneficent, the Merciful.
[The Quran ; 2:163]

وَإِلَهُكُمْ إِلَهٌ وَاحِدٌ لاَّ إِلَهَ إِلاَّ هُوَ الرَّحْمَنُ الرَّحِيمُ (163)

[The Quran ; 2:163]

And God declares that true believers love Him more than anyone else or anything else

And there are some among men who take for themselves objects of worship besides Allah, whom they love as they love Allah, and those who believe are stronger in love for Allah and O, that those who are unjust had seen, when they see the chastisement, that the power is wholly Allah's and that Allah is severe in requiting (evil).
[The Quran ; 2:165]

وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يَتَّخِذُ مِن دُونِ اللّهِ أَندَاداً يُحِبُّونَهُمْ كَحُبِّ اللّهِ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ أَشَدُّ حُبًّا لِّلّهِ وَلَوْ يَرَى الَّذِينَ ظَلَمُواْ إِذْ يَرَوْنَ الْعَذَابَ أَنَّ الْقُوَّةَ لِلّهِ جَمِيعاً وَأَنَّ اللّهَ شَدِيدُ الْعَذَابِ (165)

To be continued.

**AhmedBahgat** · Last edited by AhmedBahgat on Tue 21 Aug, 2007 6:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

Hello All,

Evidences from the Fourth Gospel

The Gospel of John was completed to its present form some seventy years after Jesus was raised up to heaven. This Gospel in its final form says one more thing about Jesus that was unknown from the previous three Gospels that Jesus was the Word of God. John means that Jesus was God's agent through whom God created everything else. This is often misunderstood to mean that Jesus was God Himself. But John was saying, as Paul had already said, that Jesus was God's first creature. In the Book of Revelation in the Bible, we find that Jesus is,

the beginning of God's creation
(Revelation 3:14)

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him
(1 Corinthians 8:6)

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
(Colossians 1:15)

Anyone who says that the Word of God is a person distinct from God must also admit that the Word was created, for the Word speaks in the Bible saying:

Yahweh created me
(Proverbs 8:22)

This Gospel, nevertheless, clearly teaches that Jesus is not God. If it did not continue this teaching, then it would contradict the other three Gospels and also the letters of Paul from which it is clearly established that Jesus is not God.

We find here that Jesus was not co-equal with the Father, for Jesus said:

The Father is greater than I
(John 14:28)

People forget this and they say that Jesus is equal to the Father. Whom should we believe Jesus or the people?

Muslims and Christians agree that God is self-existent. That means that He does not derive his existence from anyone. Yet John tells us that Jesus' existence is caused by the Father. Jesus says in this Gospel:

I live because of the Father
(John 6:57)

John tells us that Jesus did not have any authority of his own when he quotes Jesus as saying:

I can do nothing of my own authority
(John 5:30)

This agrees with what we learn about Jesus from the other Gospels. In Mark, for example, we learn that Jesus performed miracles by a power which was not within his control. This is especially clear from an episode in which a woman is healed of her incurable bleeding. The woman came up behind him and touched his cloak; and she was immediately healed. But Jesus had no idea who touched him. Mark describes Jesus's actions thus:

At once Jesus realised that power had gone out from him. He turned around in the crowd and asked: Who touched my clothes?
(Mark 5:30)

How the god could not know that? : Who touched my clothes?

His disciples could not provide a satisfactory answer, so Mark tells us:

Jesus kept looking around to see who had done it
(Mark 5:32)

This shows that the power that healed the woman was not within Jesus's control. He knew that the power had gone out of him, but he did not know where it went. Some other intelligent being had to guide that power to the woman who needed to be healed. God was that intelligent being. It is no wonder, then, that in Acts of the Apostles we read that it was God who did the miracles through Jesus

Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:"
(Acts 2:22)

See: ; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you,

God did extraordinary miracles through others too, but that does not make the others God

And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:
(Acts 19:11)

Why, then, is Jesus taken for God?

Even when Jesus raised his friend Lazarus from the dead, he had to ask God to do it. Lazarus' sister, Martha, knew this, for she said to Jesus:

I know that even now God will give you whatever you ask
(John 11:22)

Martha knew that Jesus was not God, and John who reported this with approval knew it also.
Jesus had a God, for when he was about to ascend to heaven, he said:

I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God
(John 20:17)

John was sure that no one had seen God, although he knew that many people had seen Jesus:

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
(John 1:18)

No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
(1 John 4:12)

In fact Jesus himself told the crowds, that they have never seen the Father, nor have they heard the Father's voice

And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
(John 5:37)

Notice that if Jesus was the Father, his statement here would be false.

Who is the only God in John's Gospel? The Father only. Jesus testified to this when he declared that the God of the Jews is the Father:

Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: "
(John 8:54)

And the God of the Jews is no other than Yahweh who declared that he is the only God. Jesus too confirmed that the Father alone is the only true God:

1: These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3: And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

(John 17:1-3)

And Jesus said to his enemies:

You are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God
(John 8:40)

According to John, therefore, Jesus was not God, and nothing John wrote should be taken as proof that he was unless one wishes to disagree with John.

To be continued¦.

**AhmedBahgat** · Last edited by AhmedBahgat on Tue 21 Aug, 2007 6:57 pm; edited 1 time in total

Hello All,

Jesus and the Father are two Separate Beings

Many people use certain verses of the Bible as proof that Jesus is God. However, all of these verses, when understood in context, prove the opposite!

For example, Jesus said to a certain man:

Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.
(Matthew 9:2)

Because of this, some say that Jesus must be God since only God can forgive sins. However, if you are willing to read just a few verses further, you will find that the people:

praised God, who had given such authority to men
(Matthew 9:8)

This shows that the people knew, and Matthew agrees, that Jesus is not the only man to receive such authority from God. Jesus himself emphasized that he does not speak on his own authority:

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
(John 14:10)

Jesus did or spoke nothing on his own authority, but he spoke only what the Father has taught him:

Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
(John 8:28)

What Jesus did here was as follows. Jesus announced to the man the knowledge Jesus received from God that God had forgiven the man. Notice that Jesus did not say, I forgive your sins, but rather, Your sins are forgiven, implying, as this would to his Jewish listeners, that God had forgiven the man. Jesus, then, did not have the power to forgive sins, and in that very episode he called himself the Son of Man

But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house
(Matthew 9:6)

Another passage in John' Gospel is often used as proof that Jesus is God because Jesus said,

I and my Father are one.
(John 10:30)

But, if you read the next six verses, you will find Jesus explaining that his enemies were wrong to think that he was claiming to be God. What Jesus obviously means here is that he is one with the Father in purpose:

31: Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32: Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33: The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34: Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35: If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36: Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
(John 10:31-36)

Jesus also prayed that his disciples should be one just as Jesus and the Father are one. Obviously, he was not praying that all his disciples should somehow merge into one individual

And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
(John 17:11)

And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
(John 17:22)

And when Luke reports that the disciples were all one, Luke does not mean that they became one single human being, but that they shared a common purpose although they were separate beings:

And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
(Acts 4:32)

In terms of essence, Jesus and the Father are two, for Jesus said they are two witnesses

14: Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
15: Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
16: And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
17: It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18: I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
(John 8:14-18)

They have to be two, since one is greater than the other:

Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I..
(John 14:28)

When Jesus prayed to be saved from the cross, he said:

Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done
(Luke 22:42)

This shows that they had two separate wills, although Jesus submitted his will to the will of the Father. Two wills mean two separate individuals.

Furthermore, Jesus is reported to have said,

My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
(Matthew 27:46)

If one of them forsook the other, then they must be two separate entities.

Again, Jesus is reported to have said:

Father, into your hands I commit my spirit
(Luke 23:46)

If the spirit of one can be placed into the hands of another, they must be two separate beings.
In all of these instances, Jesus is clearly subordinate to the Father. When Jesus knelt down and prayed he obviously was not praying to himself:

And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed,
(Luke 22:41)

He was praying to his God.

Throughout the New Testament, the Father alone is called God. In fact, the titles Father and God are used to designate one individual, not three, and never Jesus. This is also clear from the fact that Matthew substituted the title Father in the place of the title God in at least two places in his Gospel:

Here is two examples to compare two verses from different Gospels together :

First example:

Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
(Matthew 10:29)

Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God?
(Luke 12:6)

Second example:

For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
(Matthew 12:50)

For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.
(Mark 3:35)

If Matthew is right in doing so, then the Father alone is God.

Was Jesus the Father? No! Because Jesus said, :

Do not call anyone on earth father', for you have one father, and he is in heaven
(Matthew 23:9)

Since Jesus was standing on the earth when he said this, he is not the Father.

The Quran seeks to bring people back to the true faith that was taught by Jesus, and by his true disciples who continued in his teaching. That teaching emphasized a continued commitment to the first commandment that Yahweh alone is God. Yahweh, the only true God, is called Father in the New Testament, and Allah in the Quran. In the Quran, Allah directs His servants to call readers of the Bible back to that true faith. God says:

Say: O people of the Scripture! Come to an agreement between us and you: that we shall worship none but Allah, and that we shall ascribe no partners unto Him, and that none of us shall take others for Lords beside Allah.
[The Quran ; 3:64]

To be continued....

**AhmedBahgat** · Last edited by AhmedBahgat on Sat 07 Feb, 2009 9:25 pm; edited 7 times in total

Hello All

Jesus Christ teaching is quit substantial, but his short life and the immaturity of his people prevented him from completing the mission on which he had been sent into the world. It is also possible that his mission was by necessity of a limited nature according to our God plan, to pave the way for what was to come. Under either circumstances Jesus had to confess:

I had many things to say to you, but you can not bear them now bear them now. When the Spirit comes, he will guide you into the truth

The Gospel according to John reports the following part of speech which Jesus made to his disciples during the Last Supper.:

(5) But now I am going to the one who sent me, and not one of you asks me, 'Where are you going?'

(6) But because I told you this, grief has filled your hearts.

(7) But I tell you the truth, it is better for you that I go. For if I do not go, the Advocate will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.

(8) And when he comes he will convict the world in regard to sin and righteousness and condemnation:

(9) sin, because they do not believe in me;

(10) righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you will no longer see me;

(11) condemnation, because the ruler of this world has been condemned.

(12) "I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.

(13) But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming.

(14) He will glorify me, because he will take from what is mine and declare it to you.

(15) Everything that the Father has is mine; for this reason I told you that he will take from what is mine and declare it to you.
[John ; 16:5-15]

By this Jesus is informing his disciples that he is about to leave the world, that he has not accomplished his mission, and another will come after him to teach the whole truth. That other one is called by various names according to the various versions of the Bible. The RSV calls him Counselor. King James version calls him Comforter. Whatever the title, the Counselor was described by Jesus as the person who:

A) Would come after him
B) Would convince the world of sin and righteousness and judgement
C) Would guide mankind into all the truth
D) Would not speak on his own authority, but whatever he would hear he would speak
E) Would prophecy
F) Would glorify Jesus Christ

Let's examine this prophecy of Jesus as reported by John's Gospel without any preconceived notions, and with perfect objectivity.

Many Christians with minds fully indoctrinated by Church authorities take it for granted that the prophecy refers to the Holy Ghost, or the Holy Spirit, and the third person of the ever blessed incomprehensible Trinity.
This belief is strengthened by the parenthetical insertion of the title the Holy Spirit after Counselor in John 14:25. With the accumulated errors of fourteen centuries of manuscript copying as the editors of the RSV Bible admit, it is easy to imagine the interpolation of such title as the Holy Spirit, either as an explanation believed by the original writer, or by any of the numerous manuscript copyist down the centuries as likely intention of Christ. The Holy Ghost or Spirit is one that is believed to have filled the disciples of Jesus and after them the Church authorities, generation after generation until today. What the Church does and says is claimed to be through the guidance and inspiration of the Holy Spirit, as prophesied by Jesus in the above quoted passage from John's Gospel

Since Christianity is divided into countless contradictory Churches or sects, it is difficult to see which one of them is the Holy Spirit working. Every one of these Churches claims that it alone is the true inheritor of the church alleged to have been established by Christ when he called Peter The rock on which he built his Church:. Each Church has fundamental differences with other Churches. Even within the same church, say the Roman Catholic Church, the best organized and most monolithic of them all, we find different and contradictory doctrines an commandments issuing at different periods. Men and women who at one historic period have been excommunicated, condemned and even burnt at the stake, have by the same infallible Holy church been not only reinstated, but also canonized as saints, at other historic periods. The history of Christendom is full of such examples. And all this time we are to believe that the Holy Spirit, who according to Church teaching is God who never errs, is guiding all these conflicting men who issue conflicting doctrines and rulings through the centuries.

The Counselor, Jesus said, would speak on God's authority and not on his own, That statement alone is enough to demolish the theory that the prophecy refers to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit, according to the Christian teaching is God. He could not only be said to be speaking on an authority not his own. This could only be said of mortal man, a man inspired, a prophet. That man would bring clear teachings as to sin, righteousness and judgment. His teachings must be clear and precise, and should be on a permanent record which is not subject to interpolation or change, so that all differences that might arise down the centuries could be resolved by reference to that impeccable record.

Finally, Jesus said, the Counselor would glorify him. Since the departure of Christ from mortal life, it is a historical fact that no one has appeared in any part of the globe who so closely fits expect the Prophet Mohammad. It is he who has claimed, and indeed has achieved, the completion of the mission of Jesus and all previous prophets. The Encyclopedia Britannica calls him The most successful of all prophets. It is he who has convinced the world of sin, of righteousness and of judgment. It is he who has guided us into all the truth for he is the Spirit of the Truth. Indeed even as a youth before he became aware of his future mission he was known by his fellow citizens of pagan Mecca as Al-Amin, i.e. the Truthful. As an elderly man of over sixty, three months before his death, having completed his God-given task he told the assembled multitude, now all Muslims, quoting Allah's words (for he spoke not on his own authority):

This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favour unto you, and have chosen for you as religion al-Islam. Whoso is forced by hunger, not by will, to sin: (for him) lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
[The Quran ; 5:3]

...الْيَوْمَ أَكْمَلْتُ لَكُمْ دِينَكُمْ وَأَتْمَمْتُ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعْمَتِي وَرَضِيتُ لَكُمُ الإِسْلاَمَ دِينًا فَمَنِ اضْطُرَّ فِي مَخْمَصَةٍ غَيْرَ مُتَجَانِفٍ لِّإِثْمٍ فَإِنَّ اللّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ

Having guided the whole world into all the truth he recited Allah's own words:

And say: "Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish.
[The Quran ; 17:81]

وَقُلْ جَاء الْحَقُّ وَزَهَقَ الْبَاطِلُ إِنَّ الْبَاطِلَ كَانَ زَهُوقًا (81)

Jesus said that he had not said all that he wanted to say, but that he that was to come would do so and complete the work. The teachings of Mohammad on sin, on righteousness and on Judgment are embodied in the Quran, a book that is unique in the world in its purity, lack of contradictions and in its inimitability. Since its revelation to the illiterate Mohammad 1425 years ago not one word has changed, and it will not change, by the grace of Allah who is guarding it from the human corruption till the day of Judgment.

Sir William Muir, a well-known critic of Islam, wrote in his book The Life of Mohamet:
There is probably in the world no other book which has remained twelve centuries with so pure a text

and since Sir William Muir, wrote this another 225 years have rolled by and the truth has remained unchanged and pure as it was from day one of its complete revelation.

With regard to the Bible, however, there is not and can not be consistency, for the Bible is not one book but a collection of many books some Christians prefers specific gospels to the others, the Bible also written by numerous writers, many of whom are not even known. There is even disagreement among Christian Churches as to the books which are accepted as canonical i.e. authorized by church elders as to have been inspired, not revealed as the Quran was. The writing even in a single book may be contradictory, as noted in the conversion of Paul as recorded in the Acts of the Apostles.

Hugh Schonfield wrote in his book Those Incredible Christians:

Within the covers of the Bible we can meet with forgeries, manipulations and deliberate inventions just as much as outside it. Scholarship is well aware of this; but when a biblical work, especially in the New Testament, is evidently not by the person claiming to be the author everything is done to avoid using the word forgery. The same is true of the sayings attributed to Jesus and known not to be genuine. We speak of such books as someone of the Pauline or Petrine school thought, of changed or invented sayings as secondary'. If we did not employ evasions it would appear that the Holy Spirit was an accessory of fraud.

It is on record, however, that down to the final determination of the canon of Scripture some of the books which are in the Bible were disputed. It was argued by quite orthodox Christians of the early centuries that certain books were not genuine productions of the apostolic authors by whom they purported to have been written. Occasionally the forger's name was suggested. Paul mentions that in his own lifetime false letters in his name were in circulation. What had to be suited was what deemed to be the interests of the Church. Considerations having nothing to do with truthfulness were at work in the slant given to compositions and in the sentiments contrary to their own attitudes which various persons of note were made to express. All this kind of thing was a commonplace of the propaganda of antiquity, and what we have to appreciate is that it was a commonplace for the early Christians as well. This was the way the game of promotion and indoctrination was played. For those without scruples, who believe that ends justify means, it is so still

The original or the books of the Bible are absent and unknown, hence the numerous versions. Admittedly the books as at present available are the works of ordinary human writers. However, some words or a divine origin may be discernible. But so mixed are these and so much interpolation has taken place that it is now almost impossible to tell the divine from the human. You cannot tell with any degree of probability which is the word of God and which is the word of a mere human who had a particular school to uphold or a particular axe to grind. Not so the Quran. Every word is Allah's own. It is a direct speech as revealed, not just inspired, to the Prophet, and exactly as the prophet recited it straight away and faithfully scribes put down immediately and plenty others memorized it.

A Christian Dr. John B. Taylor, Reader in Islamic Studies in the Selly Oak Collages, Birmingham writes in his book Thinking About Islam:

We have established that Muslims do not speak of Mohammad's writing that Quran, but of his receiving and reciting it. Just as Mohammad himself was conscious of the very special character of the Quranic text, so those Muslims after him took pains t preserve with complete accuracy all the fragments of the Quran. Only two years after Mohammad's death, with the further loss in battle of those who had already memorized the Quran, the various fragments were collected.

A few years later, in the reign of Uthman, the Third caliph, a final check was made on the text of the Quran. We can tell how careful and scrupulous the early Muslims were by the fact that even variations in pronunciations from one part from the Muslim world to another were disapproved of in the context of reciting the Quran; and so the official text was established in accordance with the dialect of Mecca, and most other versions were destroyed by command of Uthman. Thus we can feel confident the test which was established within a few years of the prophet death

Those are the view of the Christian critic of Islam. The Quran is the unsullied word of Allah. That is what Jesus meant when he said of him who was to come:

He will not speak on his authority, but whatever he hears he will speak.

Jesus was insulted not only by his avowed enemies, the Jews, but also unwittingly by those who considered themselves his followers. The Jews accused him of being a child born out of wedlock, and a charlatan. To prove that he was accursed they endeavored to cause his death by crucifixion, a mode of execution considered by them to be damnatory to the soul of the victim. Please see Deuteronomy 21.22.23. They denied that he was their Messiah.

The Christian in their part, in their over zeal, and deluded by subtle wolves in sheep's clothing, swallowed the teachings of Mithraism, Greek mythology and other contemporary Mediterranean cults, and placed Jesus on the pedestal of a pagan god. Jesus who was the son of man, Ben Adam, as he was fond of calling himself, a Prophet and a servant of God, was debased into a pseudo polytheistic god, and became surrounded with legends of propitiation by blood, legends which were current at the time within the cults of Osiris, Attis Adonis and Mithra. There was nothing new in a god begetting a son. There was nothing new in a holy trinity. There was nothing new in the salvation by blood. All these doctrines were prevalent in the pagan cults in the eastern Mediterranean region before the coming of Jesus Christ and during his lifetime. What was new, strange and revolting was to graft these myths on the very man who came to abolish them.

To be continued...

**AhmedBahgat** · Last edited by AhmedBahgat on Mon 20 Aug, 2007 2:15 am; edited 3 times in total

Hello All,

Death on the cross

It was prophet Mohammad who came and glorified Jesus. He countered the accusations of the Jews, and tore down the pagan trappings with which Jesus was no more illegitimate than Adam, His mother Mary, whom the Jews castigated as a prostitute was given a place of greater honor in the Quran than the Christian Bible. To a people who believed in the creation of Adam with neither father nor mother why should it be difficult to believe in the creation of Jesus without a father?

God is able from these stones to raise up the children of Abraham
[Mathew ; 3:9]

To the hostile Jews Mohammad confirmed that Jesus was the Christ foretold in the Jews own scripture. He taught that the Jews were speaking an untruth when they claimed to have inflicted an ignoble death on Jesus by hanging him on a cross:

(157) That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

(158) Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-

(159) And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them;-
[The Quran ; 4:157-159]

وَقَوْلِهِمْ إِنَّا قَتَلْنَا الْمَسِيحَ عِيسَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولَ اللّهِ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ وَمَا صَلَبُوهُ وَلَكِن شُبِّهَ لَهُمْ وَإِنَّ الَّذِينَ اخْتَلَفُواْ فِيهِ لَفِي شَكٍّ مِّنْهُ مَا لَهُم بِهِ مِنْ عِلْمٍ إِلاَّ اتِّبَاعَ الظَّنِّ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ يَقِينًا (157)
بَل رَّفَعَهُ اللّهُ إِلَيْهِ وَكَانَ اللّهُ عَزِيزًا حَكِيمًا (158)
وَإِن مِّنْ أَهْلِ الْكِتَابِ إِلاَّ لَيُؤْمِنَنَّ بِهِ قَبْلَ مَوْتِهِ وَيَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ يَكُونُ عَلَيْهِمْ شَهِيدًا (159)

And to the Christians, a waring which is a mercy for them, was revealed to stop their excesses in their religion:

(171) O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.

(172) Christ disdaineth nor to serve and worship Allah, nor do the angels, those nearest (to Allah): those who disdain His worship and are arrogant,-He will gather them all together unto Himself to (answer).
[The Quran ; 4:171-172]

يَا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ لاَ تَغْلُواْ فِي دِينِكُمْ وَلاَ تَقُولُواْ عَلَى اللّهِ إِلاَّ الْحَقِّ إِنَّمَا الْمَسِيحُ عِيسَى ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولُ اللّهِ وَكَلِمَتُهُ أَلْقَاهَا إِلَى مَرْيَمَ وَرُوحٌ مِّنْهُ فَآمِنُواْ بِاللّهِ وَرُسُلِهِ وَلاَ تَقُولُواْ ثَلاَثَةٌ انتَهُواْ خَيْرًا لَّكُمْ إِنَّمَا اللّهُ إِلَهٌ وَاحِدٌ سُبْحَانَهُ أَن يَكُونَ لَهُ وَلَدٌ لَّهُ مَا فِي السَّمَاوَات وَمَا فِي الأَرْضِ وَكَفَى بِاللّهِ وَكِيلاً (171)
لَّن يَسْتَنكِفَ الْمَسِيحُ أَن يَكُونَ عَبْداً لِّلّهِ وَلاَ الْمَلآئِكَةُ الْمُقَرَّبُونَ وَمَن يَسْتَنكِفْ عَنْ عِبَادَتِهِ وَيَسْتَكْبِرْ فَسَيَحْشُرُهُمْ إِلَيهِ جَمِيعًا (172)

Modern Biblical research proves this Quranic truth. It is known that there are other Gospels which have different versions of Christ's passion from that narrated in the four canonical Gospels. The other Gospels were not approved officially by the Church when the Bible was compiles towards the end of the second century. Lately new light has been cast on the beliefs of the early Christians by the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, These early Christians knows as Nasoreans or Nazarenes (which tallies with the Quranic name for the follower of Jesus : Nassara ) were predominant to start with.. The Nazarenes who claimed descent from Jesus's first disciples came into conflict with Pauline Christians (who follow Paul) and were driven out of Palestine into Syria around 62 AD. The Nazarenes regarded Jesus as a great prophet and righteous man. They accused Paul of heretically substituting Roman customs for the authentic teachings of Jesus and proclaiming him to be God. They refused to celebrate Christmas which they regarded as a pagan feast.

The version of Christ's Passion contained in the manuscript is that Judas tricked the Jews by substituting another man in place of Jesus. This other man vehemently denied before Herod and Pilate the charge that he claimed to be the Messiah (Christ). According to this version is was Herod, and not Pilat, who took a basin of water and washed his hands of the accused man's blood to show that he did not find any guilt in him. Then Herod locked up the supposed Jesus for the night; but the next morning he was seized upon by the Jesus who tortured him and ultimately crucified him.

This version of the story of crucifixion makes the pathetic lamentations attributed by canonical Gospels to Jesus on the cross more sensible. For an ordinary unknown man to behave in such a way is excusable. But for the man of God to declare at the time of trial, or even for a leader of a people with guts in him, to cry out aloud in front of a crowd:

My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me?

is to set the least below dignity of a leader.

If the crucified man was Jesus, and if Jesus was God who knew that He had come down to earth in order to be crucified for the sins of humanity, the absurdity would be shattering.

Upton Sinclair wrote in his book A Personal Jesus:

You perceive that those who tell the story cannot make up their mind whether Jesus is God or whether he is man. Truly it is a difficult problem, once you admit such thing as a possibility that God may take on form of a man and come down to earth. When he becomes man, is He man or is He still God? And how can He be betrayed, when He knows He is going to be betrayed? The legend never answers clearly for basically it is an absurdity and there can be no answer, nor even any rational thought on such subject.

If Jesus is God, He knows everything in advance. But in that case the procedure means nothing to Him, He is like an actor going through a role, and it must have been a rather tedious role to Omniscience. Is He doing it for the entertainment of children? If so, why not encourage the children to grow up mentally and face the truth? On the other hand, if he is a man and has the mind of a man, then he no longer knows the truth, he no longer posses the comfort of omniscience. The legend requires that we shall believe both these things at the same time; but manifestly, a man cannot know something and at the same time grop half-blindly as we human beings are doing all through our lives.

The riddle which perplexes honest intelligent readers of the Gospels like Upton Sinclair is resolved by the Nasorean version of the story of crucifixion. By that version Jesus is absolved from cowardice, fickleness and shallowness of faith in God as shamefully and cowardly demonstrated by the crucified man. The fickleness and detection of the disciples as reported in the Gospels also fall into position if we take it that the crucified man was not their Messiah. The disciples are therefore cleared from the charges of cowardice, treachery, falsehood and lack of faith in their leader at the most critical time. The man they sold, denied or doubted was truly unknown to them. He was not their Master.

The apocryphal (hidden Gospel of Barnabas reports that it was Judas who was crucified in the place of Jesus, and the Basildon sect of the early Christians believed that it was Simon the Cyrene who was crucified, not Jesus. According to all three synoptic Gospels it was this man who made to carry the cross for Jesus. Only John makes Jesus carry his cross. This is a significant point.

Other scholars basing their research on the canonical Gospels have different versions of the crucifixion. One such is Biblical scholar Dr. Hugh Scohnfield. who has forwarded his findings in his highly controversial book The Passover Plot. He maintains that it was Jesus who was nailed on the cross, but that he did not die there; he only appeared dead by taking a drug which is described in Matthew's Gospel as vinegar.

To be continued....

**AhmedBahgat** · Last edited by AhmedBahgat on Fri 19 Feb, 2016 9:55 pm; edited 2 times in total

Hello All,

They killed him not

It is a fact that any careful impartial reader of the four Gospels which are in the Bible will derive strong evidence to show that the man who was put on the cross did not die on the cross, but only appeared to have died. In those same Gospels there is also overwhelming evidence, in spite of the writers' own belief to the contrary, that it was possible and indeed likely, and that the crucified man was not Jesus Christ at all.

It is a fact that Jesus was not a well-known person a time in Jerusalem. To the people who were hunting for him he was a stranger, a rustic from Galilee. He had been preaching his faith for only two or three years, wandering from place to place with no fixed abode:

And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.
[Matthew 8:20]

During that time he could not have visited Jerusalem more than a few times. The earliest Gospel, Mark, says he had been there only once, while the latest, John, says four times. So little known was he that it is related Judas had to point out to his would be captors by pretending to kiss him. Thus it would be nothing unusual if they mistook somebody else for Jesus. The Gospels tell us that when he was arrested all his disciples left him alone and ran away. Even his closest disciple, Peter, denied any knowledge of him, saying:

I do not know this man.
[Matthew 26:74]

It is difficult to believe that among all his disciples who he himself had especially selected with due care; there could not have been a single one who even acknowledge that he knew him. To say that this was in fulfillment of a prophecy s to bow to faith, and to stretch reason to breaking point.

Moreover the answers that the accused gave in court during cross examination were not such as to indicate that he was Jesus Christ. At best the accused prevaricated. All the three synoptic Gospels describing the court scene failed to produce one piece of evidence which would prove the identity of the accused. Luke says that when he was ordered: If you are the Christ, tell us, his answer was merely: If tell you, you will not believe; and if I ask you, you will not answer. When he was asked a point blank question: Are you the Son of God? he retorted: You say that I am.

Matthew reports:

and the high priest stood up and said, Have you no answer to make? What is it that these men testify against you.' But Jesus was silent. And the high priest stood up and said, I adjure you by the living God, tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God.' Jesus said to him, You have said so. But I tell you hereafter you will see the Son of man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.'
[Matthew 26.62-64]

Mind you, these narratives even in their original form were written decades after the events, and are related by men who sincerely believe that it was Jesus Christ who was crucified, and yet even they have produced the evidence of only one man, Judas, a shady informer; and that evidence was not given under oath in open court, but merely by implication, a kiss purported to indicated Jesus Christ from among a crowed to frenzied mob of fanatics.

When we take into serious consideration this reasoning, together with previously related versions narrated by the Gospels other than those included in the Bible and the ancient manuscripts recently discovered which tell of early Christian beliefs that Jesus was not crucified the truth of the Quran becomes crystal clear.

But they killed him not, nor crucified him but so it was made to apprear to them and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow. For a surety they killed him not.
[The Quran ; 4.157]

And the Quran was revealed to an unlettered man fourteen centuries ago. Modern Western scholars now accept the Quranic version of the story of Jesus.

To be continued....

**7amdy**

salam bro
very nice work, i do belive of all you said ,no doubt.

**AhmedBahgat**